P. Clay Sherrod Jul 25, 2010
----- Original Message -----
From: <substellar@...>
To: <guide-user@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, July 25, 2010 5:09 AM
Subject: Re: [guide-user] Re: Star names at level 7 and below
> -------- Original Message --------
> From: Denis <boucherd@...>
>
> Ah, thanks for that! I see now.
>
> Obviously it's how my English works, because some people are misunderstanding me and
> think I'm being snide about it.
>
> Basically Bil''s already said he's had Dr Clay run a bug reporter thing, which shows no
> problems on his machine. And Laren has said it doesn't matter that 13 computers aren't
> working, it's all the same as if one wasn't working, but apparently when I say that it's
> inappropriate.
>
> And never do we get feed back as to whether or not Dr Clay has pressed all these colour
> buttons in various dialogues. A screen snapshot with the star display dialogue open
> would be informative to see what settings he has set.
>
> I've been throught this before, with a download setup. Everyone else got it to work,
> bar Dr Clay, when ucac3 first came out on vizier. When Bill had time to do the official
> version, Dr Clay's worked, but whatever we did his wouldn't work, no matter what was
> tried. He was doing something sideways, because if Bill's route worked, my route
> worked, the only thing was that Bill's update was automatically changing settings and
> files instead of them being done manually. So "something sideways" may not sound
> helpful, but it's something nonstandard going on here, because all buttons claims to
> have been set and tweaked, Bill's bug testing proggie apparently reports no problems
> (unless I've misunderstood that bit), etc, etc. It's certainly nothing standard.
>
> Now, the "for years" bit. I've been using Guide since Guide 2, pre Millennium probably,
> and likely only haven't used it since Guide started is merely because I didn't know it
> existed until it started being advertised in international copies of S&T. I didn't even
> have internet in those days. That makes no difference one way or another as to whether
> an update works.
>
> When it comes to UCAC3, well, I have a separate bit of UCAC3 bled off of the CDROM for
> North of 40 degrees only, and it's own TDF, and VizieR only, with home grown TDF.
> However, when I spent a while making a clone to run the latest upgrade to see if I could
> reproduce the error, I could not, but from what you have now informed, I would not have,
> as I had not taken the trouble to copy the entire ucac3 CDROM to my hard disc. Testing
> this setup is nontrivial you know.
>
> But folk shouldn't be using ucac3 or nomad really, but they will get shirty about it and
> insist that I don't know what I'm on about, even though there are professional asteroid
> astrometrists on mpml who say the same, so they use all this that and the other, and it
> causes them problems that they don't need to have, then get shirty when they're not
> fixed, even when people are trying to find out what is wrong, because the standard
> solutions are not working, so it _has_ to be something sideways, and objectively user
> error has to be included as an option at that point. It doesn't mean it's deliberate
> user error, it doesn't mean that user error in the end actually exists, it might be
> another red herring, but it needs eliminating as a possibility when all other options
> are failing.
>
> Now, I don't know how the latest Guide update is handling UCAC3 from hard disk. If it's
> doing it purely by TDF there shouldn't be any problems at all, and that then becomes a
> red herring. If Guide suddenly has some extra code in that scenario, because of how
> Guide 9 is likely to use ucac3 for stars, then there's a clue for the area Bill needs to
> look in.
>
> But no one is saying "this happens to me too, and I am using this OS" that I can see. I
> know Laren and Clay have said they are using the same OS, but apparently Laren is on the
> same update and does not have the same problem. Well, if it's not the update, if it's
> not the ucac3 CDROM being on hard disk, and it's not the OS, and the three have
> commonality there in their systems, what else is it but something sideways? Either
> something is tweaked nonstandard on his Guide system, possibly for specialist asteroid
> reasons, or he's doing something that's sideways (not wrong, not bad, just different,
> there's no judgement involved) that we are all missing.
>
> Remember, it is turning out not to be OS, Bill's debug proggie is not reporting any
> errors, etc, etc. Yet it still happens.
>
> Denis, are you saying that you have the exact same problem as Dr Clay, including the
> level zoom thing? I seem to remember a thread on that on Guide user some time ago, a
> similar problem re labels, which I thought was solved. The online yahoo guide user
> archive has a search facility people can use to monitor last emails.
>
> Believe it or not the thing here is to try to identify why the guy doesn't get labels
> and how he can fix it, but despite him having the problem for ages, he's not even
> thought to experiment with zooming in and out till now. User interface logic problems
> within software are harder to find and reproduce because they don't throw out bugs and
> they sometimes only work via specific routes of usage, which can be user specific, or as
> I probably said inappropriately, "sideways" to the average use.
>
> I mean, I explained how to test for black letters on black, and that wasn't tried, then
> some other guy comes along and says the same thing as if I'd said naught. And there's
> still no indication as to whether this has been tested.
>
> Nah, I'll leave you to it. Hopefully it gets fixed.
>
> Cheers
>
> John
>
>> The OS is rarely a factor in Guide as Bill avoids using any Windows
>> specific function calls. Specific types of graphics, i.e. Themes may
>> sometimes be an issue, Vista and Win7, but are easily rectified.
>>
>> The UCAC3 catalog, installed on a system not downloaded, turns all the
>> star names when displayed.
>>
>> Maybe Bill can simply fix the codes to prevent this.
>>
>> What I would like when using the UCAC3 is to have all tycho stars to 8
>> mag and the UCAC3 from 8 up. Right now I have to have the A2 on the get
>> all the brighter than 8 mag stars.
>>
>> Denis
>>
>> On 24/07/2010 5:55 PM, substellar@... wrote:
>> > "Do you use UCAC3?"
>> >
>> > I'm not quite sure what you are saying here.
>> >
>> > Is UCAC3 display done somehow different from normal tdf display in the latest
>> > upgrade? I didn't test ucac3 download when I tested the latest upgrade t'other day.
>> >
>> > For a very long time now Guide has intelligently placed labels. In very busy
>> > circumstanaces a label or two can get missed out, but usually there's room to arrange
>> > them around things, and if the labels were bing overwritten then he'd see the ucac3
>> > labels instead, but I must admit to being confused now, because one second it's the
>> > namelist that can't be read, then next second it's the charts.
>> >
>> > In fact, the intelligent label positioning can be put to good use to give multiple
>> > labels at times. At one point is was partway sensible to label stars for some
>> > photometric resource wanting peeps so that the actual magnitude was printed next to
>> > the star, but it also would be useful to know the star's colour, B-V in that
>> > instance. You can do that with a minor bit of fiddling, and you can in fact plot as
>> > many labels as you can get away with (it's just that right click will see that object
>> > multiple times should it be used).
>> >
>> > I personally am of the opinion that he's done something sideways with his settings,
>> > because no one else seems to have the problem.
>> >
>> > Incidentally, people who are getting it to work aren't telling Bill what they're OS
>> > is. In the end OS might be a red herring, but the update date isn't the only
>> > variable in versions of Guide, the OS and service pack being used for that OS (if
>> > any) are variables too.
>> >
>> > Cheers
>> >
>> > John
>> >
>> >
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>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
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