-------- Original Message --------
From: Denis <boucherd@...>

Ah, thanks for that! I see now.

Obviously it's how my English works, because some people are misunderstanding me and think I'm being snide about it.

Basically Bil''s already said he's had Dr Clay run a bug reporter thing, which shows no problems on his machine. And Laren has said it doesn't matter that 13 computers aren't working, it's all the same as if one wasn't working, but apparently when I say that it's inappropriate.

And never do we get feed back as to whether or not Dr Clay has pressed all these colour buttons in various dialogues. A screen snapshot with the star display dialogue open would be informative to see what settings he has set.

I've been throught this before, with a download setup. Everyone else got it to work, bar Dr Clay, when ucac3 first came out on vizier. When Bill had time to do the official version, Dr Clay's worked, but whatever we did his wouldn't work, no matter what was tried. He was doing something sideways, because if Bill's route worked, my route worked, the only thing was that Bill's update was automatically changing settings and files instead of them being done manually. So "something sideways" may not sound helpful, but it's something nonstandard going on here, because all buttons claims to have been set and tweaked, Bill's bug testing proggie apparently reports no problems (unless I've misunderstood that bit), etc, etc. It's certainly nothing standard.

Now, the "for years" bit. I've been using Guide since Guide 2, pre Millennium probably, and likely only haven't used it since Guide started is merely because I didn't know it existed until it started being advertised in international copies of S&T. I didn't even have internet in those days. That makes no difference one way or another as to whether an update works.

When it comes to UCAC3, well, I have a separate bit of UCAC3 bled off of the CDROM for North of 40 degrees only, and it's own TDF, and VizieR only, with home grown TDF. However, when I spent a while making a clone to run the latest upgrade to see if I could reproduce the error, I could not, but from what you have now informed, I would not have, as I had not taken the trouble to copy the entire ucac3 CDROM to my hard disc. Testing this setup is nontrivial you know.

But folk shouldn't be using ucac3 or nomad really, but they will get shirty about it and insist that I don't know what I'm on about, even though there are professional asteroid astrometrists on mpml who say the same, so they use all this that and the other, and it causes them problems that they don't need to have, then get shirty when they're not fixed, even when people are trying to find out what is wrong, because the standard solutions are not working, so it _has_ to be something sideways, and objectively user error has to be included as an option at that point. It doesn't mean it's deliberate user error, it doesn't mean that user error in the end actually exists, it might be another red herring, but it needs eliminating as a possibility when all other options are failing.

Now, I don't know how the latest Guide update is handling UCAC3 from hard disk. If it's doing it purely by TDF there shouldn't be any problems at all, and that then becomes a red herring. If Guide suddenly has some extra code in that scenario, because of how Guide 9 is likely to use ucac3 for stars, then there's a clue for the area Bill needs to look in.

But no one is saying "this happens to me too, and I am using this OS" that I can see. I know Laren and Clay have said they are using the same OS, but apparently Laren is on the same update and does not have the same problem. Well, if it's not the update, if it's not the ucac3 CDROM being on hard disk, and it's not the OS, and the three have commonality there in their systems, what else is it but something sideways? Either something is tweaked nonstandard on his Guide system, possibly for specialist asteroid reasons, or he's doing something that's sideways (not wrong, not bad, just different, there's no judgement involved) that we are all missing.

Remember, it is turning out not to be OS, Bill's debug proggie is not reporting any errors, etc, etc. Yet it still happens.

Denis, are you saying that you have the exact same problem as Dr Clay, including the level zoom thing? I seem to remember a thread on that on Guide user some time ago, a similar problem re labels, which I thought was solved. The online yahoo guide user archive has a search facility people can use to monitor last emails.

Believe it or not the thing here is to try to identify why the guy doesn't get labels and how he can fix it, but despite him having the problem for ages, he's not even thought to experiment with zooming in and out till now. User interface logic problems within software are harder to find and reproduce because they don't throw out bugs and they sometimes only work via specific routes of usage, which can be user specific, or as I probably said inappropriately, "sideways" to the average use.

I mean, I explained how to test for black letters on black, and that wasn't tried, then some other guy comes along and says the same thing as if I'd said naught. And there's still no indication as to whether this has been tested.

Nah, I'll leave you to it. Hopefully it gets fixed.

Cheers

John

> The OS is rarely a factor in Guide as Bill avoids using any Windows
> specific function calls. Specific types of graphics, i.e. Themes may
> sometimes be an issue, Vista and Win7, but are easily rectified.
>
> The UCAC3 catalog, installed on a system not downloaded, turns all the
> star names when displayed.
>
> Maybe Bill can simply fix the codes to prevent this.
>
> What I would like when using the UCAC3 is to have all tycho stars to 8
> mag and the UCAC3 from 8 up. Right now I have to have the A2 on the get
> all the brighter than 8 mag stars.
>
> Denis
>
> On 24/07/2010 5:55 PM, substellar@... wrote:
> > "Do you use UCAC3?"
> >
> > I'm not quite sure what you are saying here.
> >
> > Is UCAC3 display done somehow different from normal tdf display in the latest upgrade? I didn't test ucac3 download when I tested the latest upgrade t'other day.
> >
> > For a very long time now Guide has intelligently placed labels. In very busy circumstanaces a label or two can get missed out, but usually there's room to arrange them around things, and if the labels were bing overwritten then he'd see the ucac3 labels instead, but I must admit to being confused now, because one second it's the namelist that can't be read, then next second it's the charts.
> >
> > In fact, the intelligent label positioning can be put to good use to give multiple labels at times. At one point is was partway sensible to label stars for some photometric resource wanting peeps so that the actual magnitude was printed next to the star, but it also would be useful to know the star's colour, B-V in that instance. You can do that with a minor bit of fiddling, and you can in fact plot as many labels as you can get away with (it's just that right click will see that object multiple times should it be used).
> >
> > I personally am of the opinion that he's done something sideways with his settings, because no one else seems to have the problem.
> >
> > Incidentally, people who are getting it to work aren't telling Bill what they're OS is. In the end OS might be a red herring, but the update date isn't the only variable in versions of Guide, the OS and service pack being used for that OS (if any) are variables too.
> >
> > Cheers
> >
> > John
> >
> >
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