P. Clay Sherrod Aug 29, 2009
----- Original Message -----
From: "ucac3temp" <ucac3temp@...>
To: <guide-user@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, August 29, 2009 5:45 PM
Subject: [guide-user] Re: UCAC3 from VizieR in Guide 8 - a howto
>
> Hiya
>
> Well, Roger Pickard has been good enough to post earlier that he did as said and it
> worked fine.
>
> Another thing is I'm pretty sure you've used vizier transparently, but never known it.
>
> Some http get / asu whatever syntax stuff was something I managed to find and kind of
> reverse engineer read a few years ago, which was applicable to vizier and worked with
> Bill's then new //xhttp More Info feature. Bill took it a bit further, researched it up
> and learnt some ASU and extended some of the Guide download button features to use it,
> sometimes directly, and later extendably, and also it got passed around a bit, to I
> think the guy who does Astrometrica and things like that.
>
> And either one way or another, possibly independently in some cases, quite a few of the
> minor planet astrometry packages are capable of getting the internet download stuff,
> usually via vizier, folk just aren't really aware of the fact so much.
>
> I'd expect astrometrica (or whichever it is) to be offering it soon even if the DVDs are
> delayed.
>
> I'm pretty sure you're one of the asteroid peeps?
>
> In terms of Guide TDF though, you'll be getting on screen (or printed) plotted stars and
> More Info Help pages, as text. Any field matching and or chart generation will likely
> be helped, but for other stuff like doing astrometry you'd need Bill's charon, and I
> don't know if that's supported so much nowadays seeing the wealth of astrometric
> freeware out there, so dunno if it'll use it.
>
> Bill's version of the TDF will likely include things like objects being corrected from
> their epoch and equinox J2000 positions in UCAC3 via their listed proper motions in
> UCAC3 to positions at epoch of date.
>
> I tend not to believe in all that coz I've seen it go wrong so often, at times proper
> motionless CMC14 positions can be better than proper motion corrected UCAC2 ones. But
> others like that sort of thing, and as the year 2000 gets farther away it's likely more
> necessary. So, if you're reticent, best to wait for Bill's update version for vizier
> download, it'll be less obfuscatory than my route.
>
> UCAC3 has gotten onto VizieR _very_ quickly, almost with unprecedented speed seeing it
> was only announced in Brasil at the IAU on August 14th. I don't reckon the DVDs will be
> shipping all that quickly.
>
> Cheers
>
> John
>
> --- In guide-user@yahoogroups.com, "P. Clay Sherrod" <drclay@...> wrote:
>>
>> Hi John and thanks....
>> I have never used, nor am not even vaguely familiar with, VizieR.
>> Is this something that - with the preparatory work and loading as you have outlined - I
>> will be able to access readily or is there something else needed?
>>
>> Clay
>> _____
>> Dr. P. Clay Sherrod
>> Arkansas Sky Observatories
>> MPC H45 - Petit Jean Mountain South
>> MPC H41 - Petit Jean Mountain
>> MPC H43 - Conway West
>> http://www.arksky.org/
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "ucac3temp" <ucac3temp@...>
>> To: <guide-user@yahoogroups.com>
>> Sent: Saturday, August 29, 2009 2:34 PM
>> Subject: [guide-user] Re: UCAC3 from VizieR in Guide 8 - a howto
>>
>>
>> >
>> > Hiya
>> >
>> > Well, it is as it says on the tin, I'm afraid.
>> >
>> > This is for immediate use, via vizier, because vizier downloads data to the hard
>> > drive
>> > in a quasi-ascii way, at least the way Guide 8 downloads it.
>> >
>> > Now, if you've got the DVD, although you mention CD, I'd heard it to be a double
>> > sided
>> > DVD, that's in compressed binary files, and when Bill Gray has a chance to see some
>> > of
>> > those he will likely have to generate a Guide8.exe update. Just as the CD version of
>> > UCAC2, either directly or copied to hard disk, is compressed binary files, and has
>> > bits
>> > of itself decompressed on the file with Guide 8.
>> >
>> > The VizieR aspect is that VizieR serves the data in a different way to the source,
>> > and
>> > it is a way that can be used easily via the TDF system.
>> >
>> > It's not the same thing at all.
>> >
>> > VizieR serves several large databases in a way Guide can get at them, but also in a
>> > way
>> > that is a kind of "CDS standard" as opposed to how the source data necessarily look.
>> >
>> > USNO are serving UCAC3 in a somewhat proprietary manner so they can fit it on one
>> > DVD.
>> >
>> > There are other differences too. For instance, as sourced via CD/DVD ROM all
>> > versions
>> > of UCAC, first, second and third, do not include declination. They give South Polar
>> > Distance in millarcseconds. VizieR converts this to declination for the users'
>> > convenience. Bill will likely write something that will convert this as an exe file
>> > for
>> > data extraction to ascii, and also separately for Guide 8, the same as he did for
>> > UCAC2
>> > in the past.
>> >
>> > I assume.
>> >
>> > I've gone on at length to assure you I'm not just fobbing you off, I'm trying to show
>> > the two source routes are different universes.
>> >
>> > Cheers
>> >
>> > John
>> >
>> > --- In guide-user@yahoogroups.com, "P. Clay Sherrod" <drclay@> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Hello John....
>> >> Since I am about to install UCAC-3 this is very interesting and important to me, but
>> >> frankly I have no idea what you just posted. Can you explain exactly what this does
>> >> once
>> >> installed?
>> >>
>> >> Your explanation as to what it IS is very impressive, but I think you may be
>> >> overlooking
>> >> the obvious, as in: what does this do? What if we are not installing from "VizieR"
>> >> but
>> >> from CD's, etc., etc.
>> >>
>> >> Your help is appreciated, but it is me who needs help on this one....thanks.
>> >> Sometimes
>> >> computer-challenged individuals needs a bit more than the facts.
>> >>
>> >> Dr. Clay
>> >> _____
>> >> Arkansas Sky Observatories
>> >> MPC H45 - Petit Jean Mountain South
>> >> MPC H41 - Petit Jean Mountain
>> >> MPC H43 - Conway West
>> >> http://www.arksky.org/
>> >>
>> >> ----- Original Message -----
>> >> From: "ucac3temp" <ucac3temp@>
>> >> To: <guide-user@yahoogroups.com>
>> >> Sent: Saturday, August 29, 2009 12:02 PM
>> >> Subject: [guide-user] UCAC3 from VizieR in Guide 8 - a howto
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> >
>> >> > Alrighty then, here's a temporary ucac3 from vizier for Guide 8 thingy until Bill
>> >> > has
>> >> > chance to do a grown up and more sophisticated one, because it is quite a busy
>> >> > dataset,
>> >> > with lots of flags and all that.
>> >> >
>> >> > This will give you positions, errors on positions, proper of the motions, errors
>> >> > thereupon, and ucac3 "model fit" ucac3 mags as well as 2mass J and Ks mags and
>> >> > errors
>> >> > thereon, and maybe something else, I forget already.
>> >> >
>> >> > I haven't bothered with any flags, ones such as those for doubles will only crop
>> >> > up
>> >> > rarely, and I'm fairly sure most of the astrometry software ignores various flags,
>> >> > especially the photometric ones, so why shouldn't a charting proggie? Also no
>> >> > final
>> >> > paper has been published yet so exactly what some flags represent and which one's
>> >> > concern the average chart maker or scope pointer is summat else altogether, even
>> >> > if
>> >> > there is a readme explaining some points, that's not the same as a full
>> >> > description
>> >> > as
>> >> > will appear in the eventual published journal paper.
>> >> >
>> >> > There's no use in the tdf I've writ for this one of the Guide proper motion
>> >> > corrections
>> >> > to epoch of date, ie I haven't used those command words to add proper motion to
>> >> > get
>> >> > epoch corrections coz it's often "problematic". Positions are thus epoch and
>> >> > equinox
>> >> > 2000 and proper motion is quoted in more info and help pop up.
>> >> >
>> >> > Guide should not be running when you do the following. Backup any file to be
>> >> > edited,
>> >> > just make a copy of if unsure.
>> >> >
>> >> > First, you need to get hold of download.txt. Make a back up of the original.
>> >> > It's
>> >> > in
>> >> > the Guide directory.
>> >> >
>> >> > Place it in a text editor. There are already a number of catalogues listed, and
>> >> > the
>> >> > last one is followed by a line simply saying
>> >> >
>> >> > end
>> >> >
>> >> > insert before this last line the following, via cut and paste or type it
>> >> >
>> >> > 2803 -cI/315/out&-out.all=1 ucac3.dat
>> >> >
>> >> > If you already have an entry/line starting 2803, use a number after whatever
>> >> > number
>> >> > you've already got.
>> >> >
>> >> > Remember that new number of yours though, you'll need it in toolbar.dat.
>> >> >
>> >> > Now, backup toolbar.dat. Load toolbar.dat into a text editor. Again, it's in the
>> >> > Guide
>> >> > directory.
>> >> >
>> >> > Increment the number at top of toolbar.dat by 1. ie if it's 3000 make it say
>> >> > 3001,
>> >> > just
>> >> > by simple text editing.
>> >> >
>> >> > Add/insert somewhere, probably near where you see a line like !usno.bmp, the
>> >> > following
>> >> > new line
>> >> >
>> >> > 2803 !ucac3.bmp UCAC3 data from VizieR
>> >> >
>> >> > there are 3 spaces at the start of that line, make it line up with the other
>> >> > nonhashed
>> >> > lines in toolbar.dat if confused.
>> >> >
>> >> > Again, if you used a number other than 2803 in download.txt you use that number
>> >> > instead
>> >> > of 2803 here in toolbar.dat.
>> >> >
>> >> > Save that in the Guide directory.
>> >> >
>> >> > You ain't got a button for the toolbar, I hear you cry.
>> >> >
>> >> > Okay then, I'll upload ucac3.bmp to the yahoo webpages FILES account, download it
>> >> > from
>> >> > there. Alternatively just find any small bmp in you Guide directory, copy it,
>> >> > rename
>> >> > it
>> >> > to ucac3.bmp, put it any old paint package, even a basic one like the one that
>> >> > comes
>> >> > with the OS, zoom in a lot and pixel edit it to look however you want, and save it
>> >> > as
>> >> > ucac3.bmp to your Guide directory.
>> >> >
>> >> > And that's it. You run Guide, you press the button, the ucac3 data downloads from
>> >> > VizieR (I'm using Strasbourg server, dunno if it's gone worldwide re servers as
>> >> > yet).
>> >> >
>> >> > Except, that isn't it, coz you can't see anything.
>> >> >
>> >> > So, here is the tdf to display it.
>> >> >
>> >> > Cut and paste the below text into a text editor, save it to Guide directory as a
>> >> > file
>> >> > called ucac3.tdf, and you'll get help and more info. It should be on via default.
>> >> >
>> >> > Stars are coloured via 2mass bumf, and drawn to the ucac3 model fit magnitude (I
>> >> > ain't
>> >> > bothered quoting the ucac3 aperture fit magnitude, yep, two for the price of one
>> >> > you
>> >> > get
>> >> > nowadays, or bogof as they call it here).
>> >> >
>> >> > I'll shove a copy of that in files too.
>> >> >
>> >> > You lucky people...
>> >> >
>> >> > As I say, you'll no doubt get a more grown up version later, and those who wish to
>> >> > get a
>> >> > dvd will probably in time be able to use that, hopefully even when copied to hard
>> >> > drive,
>> >> > but these are only just shipping out, and will be slowly generated, I believe, so
>> >> > it
>> >> > may
>> >> > be a long while afore Guide can meaningfully support said.
>> >> >
>> >> > Cheers
>> >> >
>> >> > John
>> >> >
>> >> > John Greaves
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > ---------cut and paste from next line--------
>> >> > file ucac3.dat
>> >> > title UCAC3
>> >> > RA H 12 9
>> >> > units0 -2
>> >> > de d 29 9
>> >> > text 1 9
>> >> > mag 70 6
>> >> > photo J:163,5 H:180,5 K:197,5
>> >> > ~b 1 9 3UCAC %s\n\n
>> >> > ~r 12 9 RA 2000 %5R +/- %[24,3] mas\n
>> >> > ~r 29 9 Dec2000 %5D +/- %[41,3] mas\n\n
>> >> > ~r 29 0 RA %[12,9] deg Dec +%[30,8] deg\n\n
>> >> > ~r 29 0 - RA %[12,9] deg Dec %[29,9] deg\n\n
>> >> > ~r 52 8 RA mean epoch: %s\n
>> >> > ~r 61 8 Dec mean epoch: %s\n
>> >> > ~r100 2 %s used observations\n\n
>> >> > ~b117 8 muRA : %s +/- %[129,4] mas/y\n
>> >> > ~b134 8 muDec : %s +/- %[145,4] mas/y\n
>> >> > ~r113 2 \nfrom %s catalogues\n
>> >> > ~b 70 6 \nR_u3 : %s +/- %[86,5]\n
>> >> > ~b163 6 J : %s +/- %[171,4]\n
>> >> > ~b197 6 Ks : %s +/- %[205,4]\n
>> >> >
>> >> > epoch 2000
>> >> > type 6
>> >> > goto spaces # Ignore extra spaces in 'go to'
>> >> > goto case # Ignore upper vs. lower case in 'go to'
>> >> > label spaces # Remove extra spaces in the labels
>> >> > field 0.00 15.00
>> >> > mag lim 10
>> >> > shown 7
>> >> > end
>> >> > -----------cut and paste to previous line---------
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > ------------------------------------
>> >> >
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>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > ------------------------------------
>> >
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>> >
>>
>
>
>
>
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