Hiya

Well, Roger Pickard has been good enough to post earlier that he did as said and it worked fine.

Another thing is I'm pretty sure you've used vizier transparently, but never known it.

Some http get / asu whatever syntax stuff was something I managed to find and kind of reverse engineer read a few years ago, which was applicable to vizier and worked with Bill's then new //xhttp More Info feature. Bill took it a bit further, researched it up and learnt some ASU and extended some of the Guide download button features to use it, sometimes directly, and later extendably, and also it got passed around a bit, to I think the guy who does Astrometrica and things like that.

And either one way or another, possibly independently in some cases, quite a few of the minor planet astrometry packages are capable of getting the internet download stuff, usually via vizier, folk just aren't really aware of the fact so much.

I'd expect astrometrica (or whichever it is) to be offering it soon even if the DVDs are delayed.

I'm pretty sure you're one of the asteroid peeps?

In terms of Guide TDF though, you'll be getting on screen (or printed) plotted stars and More Info Help pages, as text. Any field matching and or chart generation will likely be helped, but for other stuff like doing astrometry you'd need Bill's charon, and I don't know if that's supported so much nowadays seeing the wealth of astrometric freeware out there, so dunno if it'll use it.

Bill's version of the TDF will likely include things like objects being corrected from their epoch and equinox J2000 positions in UCAC3 via their listed proper motions in UCAC3 to positions at epoch of date.

I tend not to believe in all that coz I've seen it go wrong so often, at times proper motionless CMC14 positions can be better than proper motion corrected UCAC2 ones. But others like that sort of thing, and as the year 2000 gets farther away it's likely more necessary. So, if you're reticent, best to wait for Bill's update version for vizier download, it'll be less obfuscatory than my route.

UCAC3 has gotten onto VizieR _very_ quickly, almost with unprecedented speed seeing it was only announced in Brasil at the IAU on August 14th. I don't reckon the DVDs will be shipping all that quickly.

Cheers

John

--- In guide-user@yahoogroups.com, "P. Clay Sherrod" <drclay@...> wrote:
>
> Hi John and thanks....
> I have never used, nor am not even vaguely familiar with, VizieR.
> Is this something that - with the preparatory work and loading as you have outlined - I
> will be able to access readily or is there something else needed?
>
> Clay
> _____
> Dr. P. Clay Sherrod
> Arkansas Sky Observatories
> MPC H45 - Petit Jean Mountain South
> MPC H41 - Petit Jean Mountain
> MPC H43 - Conway West
> http://www.arksky.org/
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "ucac3temp" <ucac3temp@...>
> To: <guide-user@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Saturday, August 29, 2009 2:34 PM
> Subject: [guide-user] Re: UCAC3 from VizieR in Guide 8 - a howto
>
>
> >
> > Hiya
> >
> > Well, it is as it says on the tin, I'm afraid.
> >
> > This is for immediate use, via vizier, because vizier downloads data to the hard drive
> > in a quasi-ascii way, at least the way Guide 8 downloads it.
> >
> > Now, if you've got the DVD, although you mention CD, I'd heard it to be a double sided
> > DVD, that's in compressed binary files, and when Bill Gray has a chance to see some of
> > those he will likely have to generate a Guide8.exe update. Just as the CD version of
> > UCAC2, either directly or copied to hard disk, is compressed binary files, and has bits
> > of itself decompressed on the file with Guide 8.
> >
> > The VizieR aspect is that VizieR serves the data in a different way to the source, and
> > it is a way that can be used easily via the TDF system.
> >
> > It's not the same thing at all.
> >
> > VizieR serves several large databases in a way Guide can get at them, but also in a way
> > that is a kind of "CDS standard" as opposed to how the source data necessarily look.
> >
> > USNO are serving UCAC3 in a somewhat proprietary manner so they can fit it on one DVD.
> >
> > There are other differences too. For instance, as sourced via CD/DVD ROM all versions
> > of UCAC, first, second and third, do not include declination. They give South Polar
> > Distance in millarcseconds. VizieR converts this to declination for the users'
> > convenience. Bill will likely write something that will convert this as an exe file for
> > data extraction to ascii, and also separately for Guide 8, the same as he did for UCAC2
> > in the past.
> >
> > I assume.
> >
> > I've gone on at length to assure you I'm not just fobbing you off, I'm trying to show
> > the two source routes are different universes.
> >
> > Cheers
> >
> > John
> >
> > --- In guide-user@yahoogroups.com, "P. Clay Sherrod" <drclay@> wrote:
> >>
> >> Hello John....
> >> Since I am about to install UCAC-3 this is very interesting and important to me, but
> >> frankly I have no idea what you just posted. Can you explain exactly what this does
> >> once
> >> installed?
> >>
> >> Your explanation as to what it IS is very impressive, but I think you may be
> >> overlooking
> >> the obvious, as in: what does this do? What if we are not installing from "VizieR" but
> >> from CD's, etc., etc.
> >>
> >> Your help is appreciated, but it is me who needs help on this one....thanks. Sometimes
> >> computer-challenged individuals needs a bit more than the facts.
> >>
> >> Dr. Clay
> >> _____
> >> Arkansas Sky Observatories
> >> MPC H45 - Petit Jean Mountain South
> >> MPC H41 - Petit Jean Mountain
> >> MPC H43 - Conway West
> >> http://www.arksky.org/
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "ucac3temp" <ucac3temp@>
> >> To: <guide-user@yahoogroups.com>
> >> Sent: Saturday, August 29, 2009 12:02 PM
> >> Subject: [guide-user] UCAC3 from VizieR in Guide 8 - a howto
> >>
> >>
> >> >
> >> > Alrighty then, here's a temporary ucac3 from vizier for Guide 8 thingy until Bill has
> >> > chance to do a grown up and more sophisticated one, because it is quite a busy
> >> > dataset,
> >> > with lots of flags and all that.
> >> >
> >> > This will give you positions, errors on positions, proper of the motions, errors
> >> > thereupon, and ucac3 "model fit" ucac3 mags as well as 2mass J and Ks mags and errors
> >> > thereon, and maybe something else, I forget already.
> >> >
> >> > I haven't bothered with any flags, ones such as those for doubles will only crop up
> >> > rarely, and I'm fairly sure most of the astrometry software ignores various flags,
> >> > especially the photometric ones, so why shouldn't a charting proggie? Also no final
> >> > paper has been published yet so exactly what some flags represent and which one's
> >> > concern the average chart maker or scope pointer is summat else altogether, even if
> >> > there is a readme explaining some points, that's not the same as a full description
> >> > as
> >> > will appear in the eventual published journal paper.
> >> >
> >> > There's no use in the tdf I've writ for this one of the Guide proper motion
> >> > corrections
> >> > to epoch of date, ie I haven't used those command words to add proper motion to get
> >> > epoch corrections coz it's often "problematic". Positions are thus epoch and equinox
> >> > 2000 and proper motion is quoted in more info and help pop up.
> >> >
> >> > Guide should not be running when you do the following. Backup any file to be edited,
> >> > just make a copy of if unsure.
> >> >
> >> > First, you need to get hold of download.txt. Make a back up of the original. It's
> >> > in
> >> > the Guide directory.
> >> >
> >> > Place it in a text editor. There are already a number of catalogues listed, and the
> >> > last one is followed by a line simply saying
> >> >
> >> > end
> >> >
> >> > insert before this last line the following, via cut and paste or type it
> >> >
> >> > 2803 -cI/315/out&-out.all=1 ucac3.dat
> >> >
> >> > If you already have an entry/line starting 2803, use a number after whatever number
> >> > you've already got.
> >> >
> >> > Remember that new number of yours though, you'll need it in toolbar.dat.
> >> >
> >> > Now, backup toolbar.dat. Load toolbar.dat into a text editor. Again, it's in the
> >> > Guide
> >> > directory.
> >> >
> >> > Increment the number at top of toolbar.dat by 1. ie if it's 3000 make it say 3001,
> >> > just
> >> > by simple text editing.
> >> >
> >> > Add/insert somewhere, probably near where you see a line like !usno.bmp, the
> >> > following
> >> > new line
> >> >
> >> > 2803 !ucac3.bmp UCAC3 data from VizieR
> >> >
> >> > there are 3 spaces at the start of that line, make it line up with the other
> >> > nonhashed
> >> > lines in toolbar.dat if confused.
> >> >
> >> > Again, if you used a number other than 2803 in download.txt you use that number
> >> > instead
> >> > of 2803 here in toolbar.dat.
> >> >
> >> > Save that in the Guide directory.
> >> >
> >> > You ain't got a button for the toolbar, I hear you cry.
> >> >
> >> > Okay then, I'll upload ucac3.bmp to the yahoo webpages FILES account, download it
> >> > from
> >> > there. Alternatively just find any small bmp in you Guide directory, copy it, rename
> >> > it
> >> > to ucac3.bmp, put it any old paint package, even a basic one like the one that comes
> >> > with the OS, zoom in a lot and pixel edit it to look however you want, and save it as
> >> > ucac3.bmp to your Guide directory.
> >> >
> >> > And that's it. You run Guide, you press the button, the ucac3 data downloads from
> >> > VizieR (I'm using Strasbourg server, dunno if it's gone worldwide re servers as yet).
> >> >
> >> > Except, that isn't it, coz you can't see anything.
> >> >
> >> > So, here is the tdf to display it.
> >> >
> >> > Cut and paste the below text into a text editor, save it to Guide directory as a file
> >> > called ucac3.tdf, and you'll get help and more info. It should be on via default.
> >> >
> >> > Stars are coloured via 2mass bumf, and drawn to the ucac3 model fit magnitude (I
> >> > ain't
> >> > bothered quoting the ucac3 aperture fit magnitude, yep, two for the price of one you
> >> > get
> >> > nowadays, or bogof as they call it here).
> >> >
> >> > I'll shove a copy of that in files too.
> >> >
> >> > You lucky people...
> >> >
> >> > As I say, you'll no doubt get a more grown up version later, and those who wish to
> >> > get a
> >> > dvd will probably in time be able to use that, hopefully even when copied to hard
> >> > drive,
> >> > but these are only just shipping out, and will be slowly generated, I believe, so it
> >> > may
> >> > be a long while afore Guide can meaningfully support said.
> >> >
> >> > Cheers
> >> >
> >> > John
> >> >
> >> > John Greaves
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > ---------cut and paste from next line--------
> >> > file ucac3.dat
> >> > title UCAC3
> >> > RA H 12 9
> >> > units0 -2
> >> > de d 29 9
> >> > text 1 9
> >> > mag 70 6
> >> > photo J:163,5 H:180,5 K:197,5
> >> > ~b 1 9 3UCAC %s\n\n
> >> > ~r 12 9 RA 2000 %5R +/- %[24,3] mas\n
> >> > ~r 29 9 Dec2000 %5D +/- %[41,3] mas\n\n
> >> > ~r 29 0 RA %[12,9] deg Dec +%[30,8] deg\n\n
> >> > ~r 29 0 - RA %[12,9] deg Dec %[29,9] deg\n\n
> >> > ~r 52 8 RA mean epoch: %s\n
> >> > ~r 61 8 Dec mean epoch: %s\n
> >> > ~r100 2 %s used observations\n\n
> >> > ~b117 8 muRA : %s +/- %[129,4] mas/y\n
> >> > ~b134 8 muDec : %s +/- %[145,4] mas/y\n
> >> > ~r113 2 \nfrom %s catalogues\n
> >> > ~b 70 6 \nR_u3 : %s +/- %[86,5]\n
> >> > ~b163 6 J : %s +/- %[171,4]\n
> >> > ~b197 6 Ks : %s +/- %[205,4]\n
> >> >
> >> > epoch 2000
> >> > type 6
> >> > goto spaces # Ignore extra spaces in 'go to'
> >> > goto case # Ignore upper vs. lower case in 'go to'
> >> > label spaces # Remove extra spaces in the labels
> >> > field 0.00 15.00
> >> > mag lim 10
> >> > shown 7
> >> > end
> >> > -----------cut and paste to previous line---------
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > ------------------------------------
> >> >
> >> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an empty email to:
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> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
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> >
> >
> >
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