Hi Grant,

I wrote in my previous message that I might look at the 'startup.mar'
or 'guide.dat' file, and immediately slap my forehead.

It wasn't quite _that_ immediate. I had Guide load up your files,
and got a field of stars where, when I clicked on one of them, I got
GSC data. _That_ was when I slapped my forehead.

Guide has a toggle, mostly just for testing purposes, that shuts
off UCAC of any kind and causes GSC data to be shown instead. To do
this, you hit Alt-J and enter 12. Do it again, and Guide will go back
to display of UCAC data.

In your 'startup.mar' flags 0, 4, and 12 were set. Flags and
their meanings (note that some aren't used anymore, and many of the
rest don't do anything very useful) :

0: close approaches computed for asteroids
3: Horizon collision test
4: Suppress RealSky/DSS/built-in images
5: Suppress GSC _and_ UCAC (only bright stars are shown)
6: Suppress display of almost everything except solar system objects
7: (DOS Guide only) Use 'scope driver' system (no longer used)
8: Use Bessell formulae to convert Tycho mags to Johnson
11: Set proper motion for Tycho and UCACx stars to zero
12: Use GSC instead of UCACx

0: With this, if you click for 'more info' on a close asteroid,
Guide will attempt to figure out when it will be closest to the earth.
Doesn't work too well, which is why it was left as a test flag.

3: This only makes sense if you go into Display.. Backgrounds and
turn on 'Horizon objects'. I was working with somebody with a telescope
that could only swing in certain directions without banging into something
solid, and whose horizon would have stopped him from looking in some
directions anyway. So I needed the ability to test: "if we look _here_,
does that point at an object on the horizon? Can we really look there?"

Turn on flag 3, and move the cursor to an object on the horizon, and
the constellation identifier in the legend will show an asterisk. This was
just my way of checking that my code to determine horizon collisions was
actually getting them right.

I don't remember exactly why I added 4, 5, 6, and 11. They made sense
at the time. I probably was debugging something where I needed to see:
"Does the bug happen even if X is shut off?" (And if it still happened
with X shut off, I could ignore all the code associated with X and look
elsewhere for the cause of the trouble.)

7 was for a system once in use in DOS Guide by people with home-built
telescopes. With this, when you hit 'slew Guide', Guide would write out
a little file that basically said: "Guide is pointed at the following
RA/dec and altitude/azimuth, with the following rates of motion", and
would start up a user-supplied 'scope.exe' program. 'scope.exe' could then
look in that little file, extract either the RA/dec or the alt/az depending
on its preference, and move the telescope.

-- Bill

On 2016-11-14 10:59, 'Blair, Grant' g.blair@... [guide-user] wrote:
>
>
> Denis – I apologize for my assumption you were confused….as happens nearly always, Bill had built-in a “find the data at [nearly] all costs” algorithm.
>
>
>
> Incredible J
>
>
>
> I shipped off the GUIDE.DAT & STARTUP.MAR files to Bill – maybe it’s something peculiar in the STARTUP which is preventing display.
>
> Grant
>
>
>
> *From:*guide-user@yahoogroups.com [mailto:guide-user@yahoogroups.com]
> *Sent:* Sunday, November 13, 2016 5:17 PM
> *To:* guide-user@yahoogroups.com
> *Subject:* Re: [guide-user] RE: UCAC4 (again)
>
>
>
>
>
> Bill,
>
> That makes sense. Reason why I don't see an entry. I tried pointing at
> the UCAC4 in my "D" drive under a a different name (Star Catalog\UCAC4)
> and it did add an entry guide.dat but If I delete it, guide still find
> the folder and works.
>
> Thanks for the clearing this issue.
>
> Denis
>
> On 13-Nov-16 3:01 PM, Bill Gray pluto@... <mailto:pluto@...> [guide-user] wrote:
>> Hi Denis,
>>
>> In some situations, you don't have to specify the UCAC4_PATH in
>> Guide.dat. If there isn't one specified (or if Guide is unable to
>> find files in that path), it'll check the DVD drive, the \ucac4
>> folder of the current drive, the \u4 folder, and then the ucac4
>> and u4 folders within Guide's folder. (For example, if you've
>> installed Guide in c:\guide9, those last two would cause Guide to
>> look within c:\guide9\ucac4 and c:\guide9\u4.)
>>
>> Besides, the fact that the 'go to... object name' feature works
>> suggests to me that Guide does have the data. So whichever way Grant
>> has the UCAC4_PATH set, I think that part is working. Still might
>> help me to see the 'guide.dat' and 'startup.mar' files; looking at
>> the actual settings might cause me to slap my forehead and feel very
>> stupid as I see an answer.
>>
>> -- Bill
>>
>> On 2016-11-13 16:51, Denis boucherd@... <mailto:boucherd@...> [guide-user] wrote:
>>>
>>> No, I am not confused. My Guide.dat does NOT have an entry pointing to UCAC4 and it works just fine.
>>>
>>> I check my laptop, same. Running both on Windows 10 Pro.
>>>
>>> I do have the dialog entry, DLG_3025 = UCAC4_PATH which you can delete and nothing happens, UCAC4 still works, as it is a cache of what you have entered with "ALT+J".
>>>
>>> Denis
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 13-Nov-16 2:14 PM, 'Blair, Grant' g.blair@... <mailto:g.blair@...> [guide-user] wrote:
>>>> Denis, I think you are a bit confused….
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 1. Exactly what do you think Alt-J **does**???? It adds entries to GUIDE.DAT
>>>>
>>>> 2. Obviously, the catalog is being found just fine – stars are not being displayed
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Grant
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *From:*guide-user@yahoogroups.com [mailto:guide-user@yahoogroups.com]
>>>> *Sent:* Sunday, November 13, 2016 3:08 PM
>>>> *To:* guide-user@yahoogroups.com <mailto:guide-user@yahoogroups.com>
>>>> *Subject:* Re: [guide-user] RE: UCAC4 (again)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Have you tried to put all the UCAC4 files into one folder, i.e D:\UCAC4 with z001 to z900 only, nothing else.
>>>>
>>>> Make sure you enter the location into the dialog using "ALT+J", i.e UACA4_PATH=D:\UCAC4.
>>>>
>>>> Nothing is needed in the Guide.dat file.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Denis
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 13-Nov-16 11:40 AM, 'Blair, Grant' g.blair@... <mailto:g.blair@...> <mailto:g.blair@...> [guide-user] wrote:
>>>>
>>>> One step more……
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> If I rename the UCAC4 file z605 to something else, then try the Goto again, Guide quite clearly tells me 4U605-1592 is not an object anymore.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I rename it back to z605 and now the Goto works again (but does not display anything at that location).
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Grant
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *From:*guide-user@yahoogroups.com <mailto:guide-user@yahoogroups.com> [mailto:guide-user@yahoogroups.com]
>>>> *Sent:* Sunday, November 13, 2016 1:33 PM
>>>> *To:* guide-user@yahoogroups.com <mailto:guide-user@yahoogroups.com> <mailto:guide-user@yahoogroups.com>
>>>> *Subject:* [guide-user] RE: UCAC4 (again)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for the input, Bill (& Roger). I am still quite perplexed.
>>>>
>>>> Guide (9.1) is obviously picking up data from *somewhere*.
>>>>
>>>> My “Toggle User Datasets” looks like (only UCAC-4 enabled):
>>>>
>>>> [cid:image001.png@...85E0]
>>>>
>>>> Clicking on Adjust Dataset shows (“on”, “Label” checked, Show at 0-1.5):
>>>>
>>>> [cid:image002.png@...85E0]
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The UCAC4_PATH entry in GUIDE.DAT is (UCAC4_PATH=d:\ucac4 followed by a linefeed character, like every other line)
>>>>
>>>> [cid:image004.png@01D23DB1.E69EFAD0]
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I’m sitting at level 10 (15 minutes) and execute Go To… Object Name and enter “4U605-1592” and click OK.
>>>>
>>>> This takes me to an ‘empty’ patch of sky at approx. RA 00:23:29, Dec +30:58:43, which sounds totally reasonable for band 605 of the UCAC4 data.
>>>>
>>>> But it’s literally ‘empty’ on my display. I right-click on the spot and Guide’s best suggestion for identification is “Border” with no additional info.
>>>>
>>>> So we’re left with the interesting situation where Guide *knows* the name and corresponding location, but is not readily displaying anything at that spot.
>>>>
>>>> In approximately 20 years of Guide/Charon/FindOrb usage, I have never come across such an issue before.
>>>>
>>>> History: to get to this point, I started with a fresh installation from the Guide 9.0 CD and added patches over the years to get to 9.1 now.
>>>>
>>>> Roger emailed me the relevant files from his (now working) setup. I’m going to trawl through the relevant lines in there and see if there is some subtle difference which has so far eluded me.
>>>>
>>>> Cheers!
>>>> Grant
>>>>
>>>> From: guide-user@yahoogroups.com <mailto:guide-user@yahoogroups.com> <mailto:guide-user@yahoogroups.com> [mailto:guide-user@yahoogroups.com]
>>>> Sent: Saturday, November 12, 2016 2:15 PM
>>>> To: guide-user@yahoogroups.com <mailto:guide-user@yahoogroups.com> <mailto:guide-user@yahoogroups.com>
>>>> Subject: Re: [guide-user] RE: UCAC4 (again)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hi Grant,
>>>>
>>>> The fact that Go To... Object... 4U314-15926 works suggests that you're
>>>> on the right road. (I should remember to suggest trying that. But I didn't,
>>>> and can't, think of a case where you could get Go To to work, but not
>>>> display.)
>>>>
>>>> To double-check: under Extras... Toggle User-Added Datasets, you've
>>>> selected UCAC4 (_not_ "UCAC4 downloaded from VizieR"), turned 'on', with
>>>> the 'label' box checked, and 'show at' set from 0 to 1 degree?
>>>>
>>>> What happens if you right-click on that star? Do you get UCAC4 data
>>>> or UCAC3 data?
>>>>
>>>> -- Bill
>>>>
>>>> On 2016-11-11 20:42, 'Blair, Grant' g.blair@...<mailto:g.blair@... <mailto:g.blair@...%3cmailto:g.blair@...> <mailto:g.blair@...%3cmailto:g.blair@...>> [guide-user] wrote:
>>>> > Thanks, Tom!
>>>> >
>>>> > Well, this is extremely interesting. Switching the UCAC4 directories (and reference) over to C: made no difference, so I set it back to D:.
>>>> >
>>>> > Still no sign of the UCAC4 stars (or labels) appearing, even at level 10 (15 minutes).
>>>> >
>>>> > HOWEVER:-
>>>> >
>>>> > If I do a 'Goto...Object' and enter "4U314-15926" as described in http://www.projectpluto.com/update9.htm#ucac4_find, then Guide does indeed go to the location where that star should appear. It just doesn't display it.
>>>> >
>>>> > Ideas, anyone?
>>>> >
>>>> > Grant
>>>> >
>>>> > -----Original Message-----
>>>> > From: guide-user@yahoogroups.com<mailto:guide-user@yahoogroups.com <mailto:guide-user@yahoogroups.com%3cmailto:guide-user@yahoogroups.com> <mailto:guide-user@yahoogroups.com%3cmailto:guide-user@yahoogroups.com>> [mailto:guide-user@yahoogroups.com]
>>>> > Sent: Friday, November 11, 2016 7:40 PM
>>>> > To: guide-user@yahoogroups.com<mailto:guide-user@yahoogroups.com <mailto:guide-user@yahoogroups.com%3cmailto:guide-user@yahoogroups.com> <mailto:guide-user@yahoogroups.com%3cmailto:guide-user@yahoogroups.com>>
>>>> > Subject: Re: [guide-user] RE: UCAC4 (again)
>>>> >
>>>> > Good luck Grant. FYI, for me the stars don't ID as 4UCxxx-xxxx until I
>>>> > zoom in to level 10. before that (level 9 or before) they ID as TYCO
>>>> > catalog stars.
>>>> >
>>>> > Tom
>>>> >
>>>> > On 11/11/2016 7:04 PM, 'Blair, Grant' g.blair@...<mailto:g.blair@... <mailto:g.blair@...%3cmailto:g.blair@...> <mailto:g.blair@...%3cmailto:g.blair@...>> [guide-user] wrote:
>>>> >> Thanks, Tom. Same here, except I'm on D:
>>>> >>
>>>> >> I guess I'll temporarily copy the UCAC4 tree to C: and adjust the UCAC4_PATH accordingly to see if it makes a difference.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Grant
>>>> >>
>>>> >> -----Original Message-----
>>>> >> From: guide-user@yahoogroups.com<mailto:guide-user@yahoogroups.com <mailto:guide-user@yahoogroups.com%3cmailto:guide-user@yahoogroups.com> <mailto:guide-user@yahoogroups.com%3cmailto:guide-user@yahoogroups.com>> [mailto:guide-user@yahoogroups.com]
>>>> >> Sent: Friday, November 11, 2016 7:02 PM
>>>> >> To: guide-user@yahoogroups.com<mailto:guide-user@yahoogroups.com <mailto:guide-user@yahoogroups.com%3cmailto:guide-user@yahoogroups.com> <mailto:guide-user@yahoogroups.com%3cmailto:guide-user@yahoogroups.com>>
>>>> >> Subject: Re: [guide-user] RE: UCAC4 (again)
>>>> >>
>>>> >> In my c:\UCAC4 directory I have a U4B subdirectory containing Z001-Z900
>>>> >> and a U4i subdirectory with a few index files and such. Also a
>>>> >> modfis.exe file (?).
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Tom
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> On 11/11/2016 6:56 PM, 'Blair, Grant' g.blair@...<mailto:g.blair@... <mailto:g.blair@...%3cmailto:g.blair@...> <mailto:g.blair@...%3cmailto:g.blair@...>> [guide-user] wrote:
>>>> >>> Thanks, guys. Tried that one, still no dice.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Did you both ftp the files from CDSARC? Or did you get them from some other source?
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> I'm wondering if the directory structure there is set up a little differently from that expected by Guide...
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Grant
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> >>> From: guide-user@yahoogroups.com<mailto:guide-user@yahoogroups.com <mailto:guide-user@yahoogroups.com%3cmailto:guide-user@yahoogroups.com> <mailto:guide-user@yahoogroups.com%3cmailto:guide-user@yahoogroups.com>> [mailto:guide-user@yahoogroups.com]
>>>> >>> Sent: Friday, November 11, 2016 5:34 PM
>>>> >>> To: guide-user@yahoogroups.com<mailto:guide-user@yahoogroups.com <mailto:guide-user@yahoogroups.com%3cmailto:guide-user@yahoogroups.com> <mailto:guide-user@yahoogroups.com%3cmailto:guide-user@yahoogroups.com>>
>>>> >>> Subject: Re: [guide-user] UCAC4 (again)
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Same here as Dr. Clay...
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Tom
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> On 11/11/2016 4:16 PM, 'P. Clay Sherrod' drclay@...<mailto:drclay@... <mailto:drclay@...%3cmailto:drclay@...> <mailto:drclay@...%3cmailto:drclay@...>> [guide-user]
>>>> >>> wrote:
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> You might try changing your path command to:
>>>> >>>> UCAC4_PATH=d:\ucac4
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> Works just fine in that configuration for us.
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> ------------
>>>> >>>> Dr. Clay
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> Arkansas Sky Observatories
>>>> >>>> WEB: www.arksky.org/<http://www.arksky.org/ <http://www.arksky.org/%3chttp:/www.arksky.org/> <http://www.arksky.org/%3chttp:/www.arksky.org/>> <http://www.arksky.org/>
>>>> >>>> FACEBOOK: https://www.facebook.com/groups/421163751426836/
>>>> >>>> ASO Petit Jean Mountain /MPC H41
>>>> >>>> ASO Petit Jean Mountain South /MPC H45
>>>> >>>> ASO West Conway /MPC H43
>>>> >>>> .......serving astronomy since 1971
>>>> >>>> ____________________
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> >>>> *From:* 'Blair, Grant' g.blair@...<mailto:g.blair@... <mailto:g.blair@...%3cmailto:g.blair@...> <mailto:g.blair@...%3cmailto:g.blair@...>> [guide-user]
>>>> >>>> <mailto:g.blair@... [guide-user]<mailto:g.blair@...%20[guide-user] <mailto:g.blair@...%20[guide-user]%3cmailto:g.blair@...%20[guide-user] <mailto:g.blair@...%20[guide-user]%3cmailto:g.blair@...%20[guide-user]%20%3cmailto:g.blair@...%20[guide-user]%3cmailto:g.blair@...%20[guide-user]>>>>
>>>> >>>> *To:* guide-user@yahoogroups.com<mailto:guide-user@yahoogroups.com <mailto:guide-user@yahoogroups.com%3cmailto:guide-user@yahoogroups.com> <mailto:guide-user@yahoogroups.com%3cmailto:guide-user@yahoogroups.com>> <mailto:guide-user@yahoogroups.com>
>>>> >>>> *Sent:* Friday, November 11, 2016 1:50 PM
>>>> >>>> *Subject:* [guide-user] UCAC4 (again)
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> Hi All,
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> I don't think I am a particularly inept person in general, but
>>>> >>>> getting Guide 9.1 (10 Dec, 2015 version) to access UCAC4 (locally on
>>>> >>>> the same HD as Guide) eludes me.
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> I downloaded the entire UCAC4 tree from
>>>> >>>> cdsarc.u-strasbg.fr/pub/cat/I/322A/UCAC4 into D:\UCAC4 on my laptop,
>>>> >>>> keeping the relative directory structure.
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> I have Guide 9.1 installed in D:\AstroData\Guide9
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> I have the following in
>>>> >>>> GUIDE.DAT: UCAC4_DATA=D:\UCAC4
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> I have UCAC-4 flagged with an asterisk in Extras-Toggle User
>>>> >>>> Datasets and the 'on' radio button is selected, as is display at a
>>>> >>>> scale of 0 - 1 degrees.
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> I go to an area of the sky with the window displaying 30 arcmin of
>>>> >>>> field and the only stars visible are from Tycho (or PPM or HD).
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> I have UCAC3 disabled, if that makes any difference (it didn't seem
>>>> >>>> to, for me).
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> Where is my mistake, please?
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> Grant
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> ------------------------------------
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> ------------------------------------
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send an empty email to:
>>>> >>> guide-user-unsubscribe@egroups.com<mailto:guide-user-unsubscribe@egroups.com <mailto:guide-user-unsubscribe@egroups.com%3cmailto:guide-user-unsubscribe@egroups.com> <mailto:guide-user-unsubscribe@egroups.com%3cmailto:guide-user-unsubscribe@egroups.com>>
>>>> >>> ------------------------------------
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Yahoo Groups Links
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> ------------------------------------
>>>> >>> Posted by: "Blair, Grant" <g.blair@...<mailto:g.blair@... <mailto:g.blair@...%3cmailto:g.blair@... <mailto:g.blair@...%3cmailto:g.blair@...%20%3cmailto:g.blair@...%3cmailto:g.blair@...>>>>
>>>> >>> ------------------------------------
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send an empty email to:
>>>> >>> guide-user-unsubscribe@egroups.com<mailto:guide-user-unsubscribe@egroups.com <mailto:guide-user-unsubscribe@egroups.com%3cmailto:guide-user-unsubscribe@egroups.com> <mailto:guide-user-unsubscribe@egroups.com%3cmailto:guide-user-unsubscribe@egroups.com>>
>>>> >>> ------------------------------------
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Yahoo Groups Links
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> ------------------------------------
>>>> >>
>>>> >> ------------------------------------
>>>> >>
>>>> >> To unsubscribe from this group, send an empty email to:
>>>> >> guide-user-unsubscribe@egroups.com<mailto:guide-user-unsubscribe@egroups.com <mailto:guide-user-unsubscribe@egroups.com%3cmailto:guide-user-unsubscribe@egroups.com> <mailto:guide-user-unsubscribe@egroups.com%3cmailto:guide-user-unsubscribe@egroups.com>>
>>>> >> ------------------------------------
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Yahoo Groups Links
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> ------------------------------------
>>>> >> Posted by: "Blair, Grant" <g.blair@...<mailto:g.blair@... <mailto:g.blair@...%3cmailto:g.blair@... <mailto:g.blair@...%3cmailto:g.blair@...%20%3cmailto:g.blair@...%3cmailto:g.blair@...>>>>
>>>> >> ------------------------------------
>>>> >>
>>>> >> To unsubscribe from this group, send an empty email to:
>>>> >> guide-user-unsubscribe@egroups.com<mailto:guide-user-unsubscribe@egroups.com <mailto:guide-user-unsubscribe@egroups.com%3cmailto:guide-user-unsubscribe@egroups.com> <mailto:guide-user-unsubscribe@egroups.com%3cmailto:guide-user-unsubscribe@egroups.com>>
>>>> >> ------------------------------------
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Yahoo Groups Links
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > ------------------------------------
>>>> >
>>>> > ------------------------------------
>>>> >
>>>> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an empty email to:
>>>> > guide-user-unsubscribe@egroups.com<mailto:guide-user-unsubscribe@egroups.com <mailto:guide-user-unsubscribe@egroups.com%3cmailto:guide-user-unsubscribe@egroups.com> <mailto:guide-user-unsubscribe@egroups.com%3cmailto:guide-user-unsubscribe@egroups.com>>
>>>> > ------------------------------------
>>>> >
>>>> > Yahoo Groups Links
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > ------------------------------------
>>>> > Posted by: "Blair, Grant" <g.blair@...<mailto:g.blair@... <mailto:g.blair@...%3cmailto:g.blair@... <mailto:g.blair@...%3cmailto:g.blair@...%20%3cmailto:g.blair@...%3cmailto:g.blair@...>>>>
>>>> > ------------------------------------
>>>> >
>>>> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an empty email to:
>>>> > guide-user-unsubscribe@egroups.com<mailto:guide-user-unsubscribe@egroups.com <mailto:guide-user-unsubscribe@egroups.com%3cmailto:guide-user-unsubscribe@egroups.com> <mailto:guide-user-unsubscribe@egroups.com%3cmailto:guide-user-unsubscribe@egroups.com>>
>>>> > ------------------------------------
>>>> >
>>>> > Yahoo Groups Links
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------
>> Posted by: Bill Gray <pluto@... <mailto:pluto@...>>
>> ------------------------------------
>>
>> To unsubscribe from this group, send an empty email to:
>> guide-user-unsubscribe@egroups.com <mailto:guide-user-unsubscribe@egroups.com>
>> ------------------------------------
>>
>> Yahoo Groups Links
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>